“And it was kind of frustrating in a way, as soon as we sold to IBM, many deals that we were trying to close and failing, as soon as IBM bought us those deals closed immediately, because buying from IBM was the conservative thing to do in those days, certainly, and you know still today. So that was ah a lesson. you know We had ah a modest success, but it could have been a lot more if we weren't dealing with such ah such a conservative market at that time.”