“You could do well by yourself and your family, and you could ah produce value for your investors, but there just wasn't a real opportunity for creativity. right I really saw the saw the choice there as as you know sticking around and kind of turning the crank on a money machine that was absolutely going to produce money, but ah you know I was going to be doing same things the same way as I had been doing and as others had been doing for 20, 30 years before.”