“I don't get me wrong, you know, I'm a capitalist like the next guy, but like i I like the returns. But what I think is that if you don't focus on the true value of what you want to offer to me, the customer was the founder, and that is to find them the next place, then I don't think that you get the returns you want. I think you kind of walk into the trap of trying to build something that won't happen.”